As the chair of NBCUniversal’s Entertainment Networks, Bravo’s top executive Frances Berwick oversees some of the most recognizable unscripted content in pop culture—including The Real Housewives, a franchise that has redefined reality television. But the empire wasn’t built on a master plan. In this exclusive interview with Fast Company, Berwick breaks down how a one-off show about Orange County socialites unexpectedly snowballed into a global phenomenon, what it really takes to cast a compelling ensemble, and why even the most dramatic storylines have limits.

Despite its global recognition today, The Real Housewives wasn’t launched with franchising in mind. “It happened by accident,” Berwick admits. The franchise began with The Real Housewives of Orange County, but the expansion came unexpectedly during development of another show. “We were developing a show called Manhattan Moms… during production we saw how successful Orange County was.”

The team wrestled with rebranding the New York series under the Housewives umbrella. “We had a whole internal debate about whether it was going to tarnish Orange County if we named Manhattan Moms Real Housewives of New York instead,” she recalls. Even cast members needed convincing. “We then had to persuade some of the cast that it was okay to be called Real Housewives because they weren’t all married.”

Soon after came Bravo’s The Real Housewives of Atlanta, and the rest is television history. “It all started with organic groups of friends,” says Berwick. “It became franchised in a small period of time because we were doing all this casting around female ensembles.”

Why You’ll Never See Filming During a Season’s Airing

One of Bravo’s more strategic production decisions is knowing when not to film.

“We now know we can’t tape an ongoing show while the current cycle is on the air,” Berwick explains. “We have tried that and it gets confusing because the cast members start reacting to things that they see [online] and it becomes very meta. Often that can be a very tedious storyline.”

In other words, when the drama starts reacting to itself in real time, it loses its edge.

Keeping the Franchise Fresh

After years on air, many reality shows lose steam—but Berwick says Bravo has learned how to avoid franchise fatigue. “There are lessons that we’ve learned from the past where [we did] too much. Two or three years ago, we had five different Below Deck casts. We’ve scaled that back to three at any one time. That’s the right number.”

The trick with Housewives, though, lies in the casting. “That’s the beauty of a show like Real Housewives—we can keep refreshing the cast. In some cases we’ll replace the whole cast, but that’s riskier.”

Bravo has also evolved in how it tells stories. “You’ll notice at some point we started doing much more flashbacks and flash-forwards,” Berwick notes.

What Makes a Great Housewife?

Not just anyone can hold a diamond or a peach. “They have to be authentic and vulnerable and really be prepared to share their whole lives with people,” Berwick says. “If they don’t feel that authenticity… the fans will be quite vocal about it.”

Early footage is often scrapped to weed out camera chasers. “Usually when we start taping a show, we throw away the first few days anyway, because you can then weed out anyone who’s playing for the camera.”

There’s also the “season 2 glow-up” effect, as Andy Cohen recently noted. “They’ll get Botox after seeing themselves on screen,” Berwick laughs.

Controversy, Crime, and the Line You Don’t Cross

From tax fraud to telemarketing scams, Bravo cast members have faced their share of post-show legal drama. “It really defies all logic that if you are engaged in criminal activity, you would want to go on television,” Berwick says. “That is really the furthest thing that we want. It’s always a surprise and a disappointment.”

But not all controversy is a deal-breaker. “There’s lots of gray area,” she explains. “If we’ve got a whole cast who won’t film with somebody… then you can’t bring them back. I will say people redeem themselves.”

“We put people on television who are flawed, as we all are. But those flaws aren’t criminal. We want to give people a bit of grace.”